Fr. Fr. The idea Theres a presupposition there that its somehow mechanical, that God saving us is like an elaborate Rube Goldberg machine in an OK Go video or something, where he puts things in motion and at the end somebody gets saved. Theyre cursing him; hes taking away their sins. Fr. Andrew: Yeah, so he goes in, and he doesnt see an idol in there, and hes like: Well, what the heck? [Laughter] He actually busts his way into the holy of holies, so the Temple has to be reconsecrated. Well, weve looked at this one particular ritual, and now we know what it does, and it does the same thing in us, for us, around us, throughout the whole cosmos. Andrew: Yeah, another super-important point, that the goat that gets the sins is not killed and cannot be killed as a sacrifice. The Religion of the Apostles presents the Orthodox Christian Church of today as a continuation of the religious life of the . She would therefore have passed her DNA to some of her children (especially to her son Canaan) and later descendants, so that individuals of large size and/or psychopathic behavior could therefore reappear later in history. And if youre listening to us live, you can call in at 855-AF-RADIO; thats 855-237-2346, and we will get to your calls in the second part of todays show. Fr. Stephen: Yes, so allow me to feed that a little bit. Fr. March 12, 2021 Stephen: And youll see it in even Orthodox translations, because a lot of our early Orthodox translations were either utilizing or aping the King James Version language, and so you can kind of see how you can get there, like if you go from a very developed theological idea, where you dont really know what the Hebrew word means, so youre thinking, Well, okay, God is enthroned behind the ark of the covenant, between the cherubim. What can I say? Andrew: Yeah, I know. But Im not sure that the body of the book establishes this. Orthodoxy, The Early Church, and Second Temple Judaism (w/ Fr. Stephen So this is sometimes expressed as there were arguments about them; in reality it was just some communities had them and used them and some other ones didnt have them and therefore didnt. Well, okay, so theres a little bit of backstory here, and again, Luke, using this detail about Christ being on the road to Emmaushes actually on the road to Emmaus, but everyone knows what Emmaus is famous for. So Greek words in the New Testament are treated as these sort of independent entities without reference to what theyre translating, and then that allows you to pack a whole bunch of things in. So its not about me, or me and Fr. He is also the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast from Ancient Faith and author of the Whole Counsel Blog, as well as co-host of the Lord of Spirits podcast. And you know, when an apostle interprets the Old Testament for you? Stephen: This doesnt mean its not historical, because any historian has to choose details to include and details to omit, and will write about things and describe things in certain ways. I can tell you all about Arrakis, the desert planet; I can tell you all about Gallifrey; I can tell you all about Nimbus [III], the planet of galactic peace. This is just in Hebrew, especially, the word that means what it says; it means cover. And the Greek word thats being used is being used to pick up that meaning within a ritual context. So theres the Battle of Emmausand again, not Emmaus, Pennsylvaniabut yeah, so, okay, to give a little bit of background here, to make it bring it home for Pennsylvanians, it would be like saying, I was on the road to Gettysburg. Well, Gettysburg is a town and it has a Lutheran seminary there, but thats not what everyone remembers Gettysburg for. From moment to moment, day to day, we come to experience these realities ever more fully. Im Fr. And I was going to say, I want to give a shout-out. Dan: Yeah, the second question was: What was it about their understanding of the goats blood that was understood to have a cleansing or sanctifying effect over the various parts of the holy of holies and the Temple that you guys discussed? The lake of fire that gets mentioned in St. Matthews gospel and in the book of Revelation has no Old Testament precedent, but the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels, as St. Matthews gospel says, is taken directly from the Enochic literature. Stephen: was making this cloud so that he wouldnt actually see Yahweh when he appeared. Length: 2:12:00. Fr. So, just what is a giant? Stephen: So, easy way to prevent that: push him off a cliff, dump him in a hole. Fr. And if hes of Azazel, this one whos teaching this forbidden knowledge, then hes doing the works of his father, so to speak; hes imaging Azazel. Stephen: So both of them have to be perfect and unblemished, because theyre going to be used for two different purposes, but which one is used for which purpose is decided by lot. Related Episodes Violence in the Old Testament: Sin, Death and Justice in the Bible Lord of Spirits: Blessings and Curses What exactly is a blessing? With the Day of Atonement ritual, theres two goats, a goat for Yahweh and a goat thats sent off to Azazel, but I thought in Matthew 25 it said that goats go to hell. And so thats one significant element of this eschatological Day of Atonement, and this is the one thats particularly emphasizedits all in Hebrewsbut this is particularly emphasized in the Johannine literature. [Laughter] That was a lot of more advanced theological concepts that were packed back into the word cover. In light of this, though, I would like to propose that from now on we refer to cover bands, Fr. Sorry, whats your question? God Is a Man of War How does God make it happen?. Andrew: Like a lid, yeah, or the top. Could that be the real AI apocalypse that we should be worried about? Sorry. So I think thats hopefully the important take-away, beyond all the fun stuff and interesting Bible tidbits; that this isnt just about knowing the right interpretation, thinking the right thing, but its about experiencing the reality of Christ. Stephen: So what you see, after that indictment is read, in 1 Enoch and in Slavonic Enoch and in the Apocalypse of Abraham, the same thing happens to Azazel in all of them: Azazel gets bound and chained up and thrown into a hole in the ground and imprisoned there until the end of days, until the day of the Lord, at which point he will be released briefly and then thrown into the lake of fire. Yeah, and I mean, people do that all the time, like they say theres three wise men. Theres the effect that those sins have on not just the peopleand I think this is a great thing for us to mention especially here because our next couple of episodes are going to be on sacred geography, so were going to be talking about space in particulartheres an effect on the space, on the place. "Atonement" is a word invented for the translation of the Bible into English, because there was no good English word for the concept it describes. We have Dan from New York, and he has a question specifically about the Day of Atonement ritual. St. John himself said, You cant write down every single thing Jesus did and said. Andrew: [Dramatic groan] Brutal! Fr. Amen. Which is kind of a weird way to end the gospel. Fr. There is this battle thats fought. The book is deeply scholarly and deeply spiritual at the same time. You guys are all wrong! Not only is that a bizarre assumption, that theres no reason to believe is trueeven if it was true, theres no reasons to believe that we as humans could understand how it works from Gods sidebut the dangerous thing is, again, not just being wrong, but how this affects our life in Christ. Andrew: Yeah, all those technological advancements. And he arguedone of his most prominent arguments that he repeated again again was that penal substitutionary atonement is the only theory of how it works that has a mechanism of how it worksthats his word. Fr. [Laughter]. Fr. So it does end up being germane to our topic this evening. Stephen: Or even mercy-seat bands, if we want to be really old school. Stephen: Right, and taken outside the camp. I am so thankful to have found this podcast, which is a wonderful resource on content and context! Andrew: Awesome. Stephen: the altar, the ark of the covenant, the other fixtures of the tabernacle in order to purify them, in order to remove that taint thats been left there, thats gathered there because of the sins of the people, because of the sins of the community over the course of the year, to purify it again. Fr. I liked the book, and I am so grateful for the discussions it has spawned within my own Orthodox congregation concerning the role of historical scholarship in interpreting Scripture. So, sort of prophetically, it said theres going to be this sort of eschatological Day of Atonement thats going to take care of Azazel and take care of this sin and corruption and take care of sacred space sort of once and for all. Fathers Andrew Stephen Damick and Stephen De Young focus on enchantment in creation, the union of the seen and unseen as made by God and experienced by mankind throughout history. [Laughter]. You know who you are. Dan: I have two questions, if thats okay. What theyre translating as ours should actually be translated as our sins. Theres a whole bunch of lexical stuff about that. I mean, the nature of this podcast is notthe purpose of it, I should sayis not to be apologetical; were not here to say, This is why Catholics and Protestants and various other kinds of religious people are wrong! But in this particular case, even though this episode is not primarily apologetical, as the whole podcast is not, there is a disconnect that happens for people when they read the Scriptures and, as weve seen, bring a lot of assumptions into the Scriptures. This is. He could have used a word for stick.. I can describe to you the inner workings of countless fictional universes. Fr. St. Paul the Mystic - The Whole Counsel Blog Dr. Stephen De Young is Pastor of Archangel Gabriel Orthodox Church in Lafayette, Louisiana. Fr. Photius: Yes, sir. So they rededicate the Temple, and although it didnt happen that time, when the tabernacle is dedicated, when the Temple was dedicated by Solomon, after everything is dedicated, after the blood is used to purify everything and consecrate everything, then the presence of God enters in as this fiery cloud. Andrew: Leave reviews and ratings, but, most importantly, share this show with a friend whom you know is going to love it. Instead of avoiding or invalidating problem passages out of discomfort, Fr. He is also the author of The Whole Counsel Blog on . In case you miscontrued everything I just said: Youre not worshiping Azazel. Okay, Im just trying to get better like Im doing a diet, a spiritual diet.. Stephen De Young The Very Rev. Its a word thats core to our understanding of Christianity, and yet there are about as many theories of atonement as there are Christian groups. But 1 John is actually the book of the New Testament that uses the actual word, ilasterion, atonement, most frequently. So if you were to translate Azazel as the goat that goes away, then the other one becomes the goat that is who he is and makes things come into being. [Laughter] Like, it doesnt, Fr. Andrew: Yeah, right, exactly. So, actually, there is really important theology and teaching and doctrine thats in these three letters. Stephen: And, briefly, since you brought up the next few episodes about geography, I know Maps is going to end up on the playlist, so lets make sure its the Yeah Yeah Yeahs and not Maroon 5. Fr. But if we understand it as covering, which is the perfect word, because were about to talk about what this actually does, but the concept is based on this idea that there is sacred space that has been set aside for the holiness of God to be present there with the people, but that the peoples sins interfere with that, that they actually stain the place. And then, so the Israelites are referred to as sheep sort of all through the Old Testament, and their leaders as shepherds, because theyre these sheep who are now set free from Egypt and brought out into this new pasture, all of that symbolism. The Book of Enoch: Scripture, Heresy, or What? Not machines taking over and acquiring agency, and not machines evolving their own intentionality, but human beings creating a world customized for the flourishing of machines? Stephen: Antiochus IVEpiphanes was not his last name. Fr. That doesnt make it not historical. Welcome to the second half of the show, here on Goat Week at The Lord of Spirits podcast. Stephen: Well, he actuallyI think youre mixing him with Pompey, the Roman general, Fr. Fr. Fr. Fr. Stephen De Young. Is the ecclesial body of Eastern Orthodoxy the most orthodox (faithful to the apostles), or is the most faithfulness to orthodoxy perhaps found in a Protestant denomination, or maybe Roman Catholicism? [Laughter]. That makes perfect sense. Its just a practical thing. Andrew: Right! Stephen: Theres a tendencyand this is not an indictment of anybody, because, I mean, Ive heard scholars whom I greatly respect publicly talk about, when theyre talking about sacrifices in the Old Testament, say, Oh, yeah, the priest would put the sins on the animal and then kill it, and Im like thats its just not there! Stephen: and now Im going to take away your KJV., Fr. So it starts with, as we talked about last time, the idea of sin-offeringsit starts with a sin-offering by the high priest and his immediate sons who are going to be serving with him; its the high priest and only the high priest and only on this day, who was going to actually go into what we now call the holy of holies or the sanctum sanctorum, if youre a Doctor Strange fan. Fr. Fr. Like, when God said, Dont worship the goat-spirits, hes not saying, Now dont do the ritual I just gave you to dothat thats not worshiping the goat-spirits. The whole goat is burned after the blood is extracted. In what manner is the atoning work of Christ mediated to the world, or could we say that it is mediated to the world by the Church? This is Christ as being the goat for Yahweh. Stephen De Young. The only other place where the phrase for the whole world, or the phrase the whole world, tou olou kosmou, occurs in 1 John is in chapter 5, the verse we read: The whole world lies under the power of the evil one. So if you want to interpret the whole world in 1 John 2:2 as referring to the people in the world, then St. John is saying that all the people in the world lie under the power of the evil one, which would include himself and the Church, and that makes no sense in the context of the epistle where hes clearly distinguishing between two groups of people. Stephen: The high priest would place his hands on the goat, on its head, to designate it for this purpose, and he would What is says is he would recite the sins of Israel. Father Stephen De Young, creator of the popular The Whole Counsel of God podcast and blog, traces the lineage of Orthodox Christianity back to the faith and witness of the apostles, which was rooted in a first-century Jewish worldview.The Religion of the Apostles presents the Orthodox Christian Church of today as a continuation of the religious life of the apostles, which in turn was a . Two things had to first happen for Trinitarian theology to be hammered out, or so I thought. Fr. All right, so weve covered the basics of the Day of Atonement ritual and the two goats, here on Goat Week on The Lord of Spirits, and were going to get back in just a moment, but first were going to take a short break, so well be right back. Fr. Stephen: And the people, they mock him and they spit on him. So St. Luke is doing this narratively, and Hebrews is just giving it to us theologically, explaining it to us. Stephen: Yeah, so I dont want to get too granular about this, because theres actually, when you get into literature about thisI did my dissertation related to this, so I read all the literature on this. Andrew: Yeah, ooh. Special request. Stephen De Young Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Century Kindle Edition by Stephen De Young (Author) Format: Kindle Edition 357 ratings See all formats and editions Kindle $9.99 Read with Our Free App Audiobook $0.00 Free with your Audible trial Great on Kindle Great Experience.