He passed. R-600a vs. R-134a: Which Is The Better Refrigerant? You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. Hot spot auto parts .ca sells R12a for about $10/can and a $10 ALL IN ONE can with oil. Well worth the money if your A/C system is still in good shape. Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. Environmental Impact: When R134a escapes into the atmosphere, it contributes to global warming. Sold by e7tools and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was tetrafluoroethane, a hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) branded as R134a. The weight is only 2.4 ounces. Further production of R12 was banned in some developed countries by the Montreal Protocol because of its harsh effect on the ozone layer. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. R134a systems operate at higher discharge-side pressures than R12, which can cause compressor seals to leak. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. However, there are some drawbacks to using this type as well. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. Get it as soon as Thursday, Apr 20. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. When R12s effects on the ozone layer became known and it was superseded by R134a, EPA came down hard with large fines on both professionals and DIY-ers. This chemical is an excellent refrigerant liquid. Unfortunately, the widespread use of R12 appeared to be significantly degrading the Earths ozone layer, potentially causing a worldwide health crisis. Their differences come mainly in their chemical make-up and environmental impact. When this happens, the chlorine in the product contributes significantly to the ozone layers depletion, leading to a lack of protection from harmful radiation. Santech R12 to R134a Coupler . For all of these reasons, the issues of conversion and performance need to be cleanly separated. Important Features: Color-coded Easy to use Made of high-quality brass Specific for R-134a Pros: Easy to operate. Condensers designed to release greater amounts of heat help to expel the greater amount of heat which R134a removes from the cars interior. Besides, R134a refrigerant was manufactured after R12 was banned to help reduce the harshness of the old chemical (R12) on the ozone layer. In the case of R134a, its the global warming potential thats an issue. At this time you can still find R12, but, because it is no longer produced, availability is limited to current inventories and the price per pound is greater than R134a. R12 and R134a are older types of refrigerants that are considered to be dangerous to the environment today. Can You Use R134a Gauges On R410a? [ Answered ] - My Vehicle Talk In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. All compressors require oils to lubricate the moving parts. Some compressor manufacturers or OEMs suggest PAG type oil for R134a. Best for varieties of operating conditions: Its boiling point is -21.6 Celsius. Second, as youll see below, if you have to perform work on an A/C system that has refrigerant in it, it is illegal to vent the refrigerant (to let it escape into the atmosphere); it must be captured and recovered. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. The name of the oil is Polyol Ester (POE). A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. However, take note that R134a refrigerants are manufactured specifically for automotive air conditioners. The original expansion valves work very well with R134a. At this point it is time to make an appointment with the a/c shop. Your email address will not be published. All references (pictorial or text) to the Porsche name, model names or numbers, part numbers or shapes are replacement reference only. The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. Generally this works well for the whole system. Theres one type of oil that will work with both refrigerants. Im not a lawyer, but charging a known-leaky system with something flammable sounds like culpable negligence to me. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. Replace the drier with a drier that has a desiccant that is R134a compatible, use new R134a o-rings. We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. The alternator, sometimes called a generator, generates electricity to charge the battery and power all the electric auxiliaries while driving. You do not want to exceed the systems high side recommendations. In contrast, older CFC refrigerants had an ODP of 1. We have the best A/C Manifold Gauge Set and Components for the right price. Also, since R134a uses synthetic oil, it has a low global warming potential, unlike R12 which uses mineral oil which poses a negative environmental impact. https://www.wiseautotools.com/mountain-quick-connect-r12-ac-gauge-conversion-to-134a/ A/C gauge conversion kits from R12 to R134A. I think that, with hindsight, many people would agree that, even given that R12 is an ozone-destroying agent, fines of this level made many hard-working A/C technicians hostile to the government, and thus were counterproductive. Converting them is extremely expensive, and in many cases, replacement is the only option available. To discover the capacity for refrigerant, you want to use the specs for the current system and multiply the R12 charge by 0.9 or 90%. Servicing automotive a/c systems: The difference between R-134a and R Bottom line, R134a simply doesnt cool as well as R12. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. We are an automotive mechanic blog that helps mechanics and car users to find the most recent and accurate technical and repair information for their cars. A gentleman in Canada was very interested until he learned about the R12. link to Alternator Overcharging - Causes and Fixes, link to LS Head Bolt Torque Specs and Sequence. To prevent refrigerant loss you should consider replacing your old hose lines with barrier type hose. So when someone says, You cant get R12 anymore, or Its illegal to use R12, those things simply arent true. It is usually sold under the brand name, Freon 12. On a long-dormant system, the odds are very high that its dead because it has no refrigerant in it, which means it has leaked out which means theres a leak that must be located and fixed. R134a wont damage the earths ozone layer. R12 is highly destructive of the ozone layer, and R134a is over 1,000 times more dangerous in terms of global warming than carbon dioxide. The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. 2021 Complete Guide, Find more info about me and HVAC Training 101, Screw, roll, rotary, reciprocating, and centrifugal compressors for refrigeration and air conditioning, Used in automotive air conditioning since 1994, and has been retrofitted to many older models as a replacement to R12, Used to remove humidity from compressed air in gas dusters. The problem in all of this is the sentence As long as the system is functioning correctly and not leaking. Who in their right mind would take a tight, cold, R12-based system and convert it to less-efficient R134a? R134a belongs to the family of HFCs or hydrofluorocarbons. R12 is used in several applications like low temperature, medium temperature, and high-temperature applications. Because of this, in the early 1930s, a new refrigerant based on a chlorofluorocarbon (CFC), specifically dichlorodifluoromethane, was developed. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. Only licensed air conditioning companies and technicians may purchase this refrigerant. While R513A is a viable option for new and existing equipment, it is not a "drop- in" replacement for R12 or R134a. Merely an emerging auto hacker. Problem solved, right? This means that this compound is made up of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. Difference Between R-134a and R-410A Refrigerants? Find more info about me and HVAC Training 101. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. Its better that this is done by professional technicians as venting any of this gas into the atmosphere is environmentally damaging and illegal. As the manufacture of this product is now banned, the costs associated with it will inevitably rise. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. This is why it is crucially important that R134a systems be properly evacuated (pumped down to boil off any moisture) and kept sealed. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. This is not to say that one of these small retro-fit kits cant be used, however to be used wisely. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. As these two products essentially do the same job, there are many similarities between the two refrigerants. If you you dont have the free time to play then you are better off to pay a technician. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. R134a replaced R12 from 1994 onwards. Google use cookies for serving our ads and handling visitor statistics. This product does contain dangerous chemicals such as methyl chloride and vinyl chloride, both of which are carcinogenic and may cause congenital disabilities. Hope this helps Reply 10-10-2020, 01:12 PM #4 Chris Stritchko When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. Both of these compounds have similar cooling properties. In many parts of the world, its now viewed as a greenhouse gas, and its use is discouraged. In contrast, the most likely reason youd consider recharging with an alternative refrigerant is because the refrigerant leaked out of your car and youre trying to avoid doing a full-on A/C rejuvenation which includes finding the leak and properly changing refrigerants. Price is reasonable Consistent and accurate To be absolutely clear, these refrigerants are not EPA-approved and shouldnt be used. You can then add ester oil thatll work with either R12 or R134a. In the years following the switch to R134a, there was confusion over what was required to maintain the A/C of older cars. Its unlikely that air conditioners or refrigeration plants will be converted from R12 or R134a to R22, but it can be done if reclaimed R22 refrigerant can be located. Also worth noting is that the R-600a requires a shorter time to reach -21C (60 minutes) compared to the R-134a (135 minutes) [1]. To bless the system the technician should attach a R134a sticker somewhere in the engine compartment to note the car is using R134a. Chemistry. Both claims are demonstrably untrue. Safety: R134a is safe to use as its non-flammable and cant explode. This chart has a column of ambient (outside) air temperatures on one side and a corresponding range of high side pressures on the other side. So the oil must be compatible with the refrigerant. R12 is extremely stable and wont deteriorate operating under the most extreme conditions. You confirmed my decisions in one elegant post (as opposed to the 60-odd hours of blog post readings and YouTube videos). After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. Statisicaly your friend was lucky. You can order a personally inscribed copy here. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. Relevant Characteristics Between R12 and R134a, R12 vs R134a Refrigerant: What is the Difference? If you still find it difficult to use R134a in a home AC system, you can check out a comparison of R12 vs R134a fittings to know the refrigerant that best fits the AC system. You can look up the law yourself at www.epa.gov/mvac, but basically it boils down to three things. Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. Servicing: When payment of any kind is involved (including non-monetary), any person working on an MVAC system must be certified under section 609 of the Clean Air Act (CAA) and they must use approved refrigerant handling equipment. These are the major reasons that this product is now banned in many countries and replaced by other refrigerants that dont have such a serious environmental impact. Certainly no one selling cans of R12 on Craigslist is asking for your EPA 609 card. It is also used in automotive car conditioning and the plastic industry. What Happens If You Put R134a in an R12 System? - techtown The advantage of ester oil is that it works with both R12 as well as R134a, so you can fill the system with it and then use either refrigerant. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. Note also that, unlike mineral oil, both PAG oil and ester oil are hygroscopicthat is, they absorb water. To take one of these and convert it to R134a was usually a recipe for disappointment. Many older automotive systems still use R12, and as youre still able to purchase individual small cans of this refrigerant via on-line marketplaces, its use in many classic motor vehicles will likely continue. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. One of the biggest advantages of using R134a is that its well known, tried, and tested technology. AC R-134 Manifold Gauge Sets & Replacement Parts for Car AC Gauges But if you live in a hot climate, want to daily-drive the car, and the car has a tiny-capacity A/C system which, even after modernization, may only perform marginally, you may want to consider sticking with R12. Refrigerant for domestic & commercial use, Mainly used in the automotive industry but can be used as a refrigerant for domestic and commercial use, Has excellent cooling properties and performs at a similar level to R134A, Has excellent cooling properties and performs at a similar level to R12. R134a is not an ozone-destroying agent, but it is a greenhouse gas, and is illegal to vent as well. I have seen a large difference in pressures you are looking for due to temperature demand of unit. Kuehl is a registered trademark of Griffiths Technical Inc. Griffiths Technical Inc is not associated with Porsche Cars North America. You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. The next piece of equipment to track down leaks is a leak sniffer. The question instead is: Why is the system dead? Its often said that buying or selling R12 is illegal. Its been used in the refrigeration industry for a long time, so theres a large body of knowledge established around the product. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. Refrigerant: Must be EPA-approved and cannot be intentionally released (vented) into the environment. Oil doesnt stay in the compressor, however, it dissolves in the liquid refrigerant and gets carried through the system as a fine particulate mist when the refrigerant goes through its liquid/gaseous transition. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. Dont do it. R134a has a GWP of 1430. For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. In addition to it having a low ODP, science has proven that R22 is also a strong greenhouse gas and has a GWP of 1810, indicating that its 1810 times more powerful than carbon dioxide in contributing to global warming. The most significant disadvantage of this product is the damage that it can do to the environment if its vented irresponsibly. I did a beer cooler with a target temp of 36 degrees, these are largely different pressures than you'll see in automotive which has a max desired temp of 60 degrees. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. The air conditioning system in your car uses a combination of evaporation and condensation to cool the interior. Providing they dont leak, theyre no risk to the environment. A set of R134a-specific charging port adapters should be installed to eliminate the possibility of refrigerant cross-contamination. There are many thousands of older air conditioning and refrigeration plants that use these refrigerants. Each has its own cult following and requires its own EPA-approved charging fittings. Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. That doesnt mean to say that theyre no longer used. Because this recipe was quite expensive, a backlash developed which gave companies an opportunity to sell conversion kits consisting of nothing but the charging port adapters and a small bottle of oil that was somehow magically supposed to make your mineral oil R134a-compatible. Small NOS cans of R12 are widely available on eBay and Craigslist for about $30 apiece. R134a is the most commonly used refrigerant to convert automotive air conditioning away from the destructive R12. This would become an expensive investment for a repair or service station to have unique dedicated equipment for every type of alternative refrigerant. The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. Lichamp HVAC R410A Manifold Gauge Set AC R134A, Freon R22 R32 410A 134A Diagnostic Manifold Gauge with Hose Kit Air Conditioner Refrigerant Recharge Kit Visit the Lichamp Store 403 ratings | 10 answered questions -27% $7999 List Price: $109.99 FREE Returns Available at a lower price from other sellers that may not offer free Prime shipping. This drop can affect energy consumption since the plant will operate for a longer period or a larger plant will have to be installed. PDF A Comparison Between Refrigerants Used In Air Conditioning With that said, Ill agree that the flammability issue may not be as black-and-white as it appears. Legally. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. The major environmental impact of this refrigerant escaping into the atmosphere is its contribution to global warming. R22, or to give it its proper chemical name, chlorodifluoromethane (CHCIF), is a colorless, odorless, non-toxic, non-flammable alternative to older refrigerants. That doesnt mean to say that there are still many thousands of existing installations that are running refrigeration plants using this refrigerant to cool them. R134a is an HFC or tetrafluoroethane, and its chemical formula is CH2FCF3. Lastly, there are the flammable organic refrigerants (propane and its blends). I am currently retired and no longer do much with HVAC, however, I feel like I have a lot of knowledge in the subject and I wanted to create a website where I could talk about what I've learned and help upcoming HVAC techs. Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. While the use of this product is steadily increasing in many developing countries, its now banned in the USA and, since 2020, is no longer manufactured or imported to the USA. Welcome to rxmechanic.com. Refrigerants - Pressure vs. Temperature Charts - Engineering ToolBox In addition, there is a $10,000 rat-out fee your neighbor can collect if youre venting refrigerant and he tattles on you. It also means that rotary, centrifugal, and reciprocating compressors can be used with R12. Can you use r12 gauges for r134a? - Sage-Advices See your PT chart. Refrigerant 134a, or R134a, was developed as an alternative to the CFC refrigerants known to cause environmental damage. If your cars system has a sufficient condenser design and air flow to expel the greater amount of heat extracted by R134a, then by all means you should convert over when the time comes. On this website we are addressing only R134a and not other suggested drop in replacements. Also, the EPA 609 certification can be easily obtained by taking an online exam. However, R12 refrigerants are still used as fire retardants in aircraft and submarines. This product is non-toxic, non-flammable, and not explosive, so its extremely safe to use for domestic refrigeration. R-134a entirely dominated the automotive market by 1994. The best oil that runs well with R134a is PAG oil or Polyalkylene Glycol. Many vehicles that contain this type of refrigerant will continue using it. R134a has an ozone depletion potential of zero and a global warming potential of 1430. R12 vs R134a Refrigerant: What is the Difference? - 2022 Complete Guide (To be clear, both cars also have a new rotary-style compressor and a big parallel-flow condenser and fan.). And it was safeneither poisonous to breathe, nor flammable. We chose to use 5-6 ounces of oil to be on the safe side: 3-4 ounces for the compressor, 1 oz of oil for the drier and another ounce of oil for system losses. Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). Some recovery machines are equipped for both R134a and R1234yf. We don't save this data. R12 was used mainly in domestic and commercial refrigeration, while R134a was used mainly by the automotive industry. R12 and R134a are older generation refrigerants that are no longer produced nor imported into the USA. In addition to this, federal laws prohibit the topping up of an R12 system with R134a and vice versa. R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. This gas is then cooled via environmental means, and the gas slowly loses heat and reverts to a liquid state. Next, add a can of R12a from the low side fitting while running your A/C. The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. Let's talk about refridgerants: R-12a or R-134a? | TDIClub Forums This means that when exposed to the environment, it exists as a gas. Thus, R-600a is more efficient than R-134a. . The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. If youre still uncertain, go to a trained technician wholl tell you what refrigeration you have. R12 will completely dissolve in mineral oil, but R134a wont. Pressure Temperature Table If it is adjustable there will be an adjustment screw between the two terminals. After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. Theyre also tasteless, colorless, and odorless. Because the two oils were different, R134a certainly wasnt a drop-in replacement for R12. This should give you a rough idea of how much youll need. International manufacturing of new R12 ceased in 1996, but existing R12 can still be reclaimed and purified. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. With the differences between the two refrigerants in mind, it goes without saying that charging an R12 system with R134a can have some serious negative effects. Winner: R-600a. R134a isnt as efficient in cooling as R12. Many commercial enterprises that run large chillers or transport companies running reefer trailers or containers have used R12 as its a highly efficient refrigerant that provides excellent cooling. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. However, there wereand aresome challenges to using it in an automotive A/C system designed for R12. When used in refrigerator and A/C systems, R12 cooled incredibly well. Alternator Overcharging - Causes and Fixes. Both of these gasses are very safe for use in all forms of refrigeration as theyre not flammable, explosive, or toxic. The Internet is a large and often-strange place, and if you want to search for sites that claim that R12 isnt harmful to the ozone layer, and that the whole thing was a conspiracy by DuPont because its patent on R12 was about to expire, youll find them. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. . Hell, its possible that not all of the original A/C components are even there anymore. ZENY 3,5CFM Single-Stage 5 Pa Rotary Vane Economy Vacuum Pump 3 CFM 1/4HP Air Conditioner Refrigerant HVAC Air Tool R410a 1/4" Flare Inlet . The cylinder head gasket is one of the most over-engineered and stressed components in an internal combustion engine. Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. So, instead of using R12, other better options include R401b, R134a, R401a, etc. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. And that brings us to, I continue to use R12 in two of my carsmy 1972 BMW 2002tii and 1973 Bavaria. The flammables have hydrocarbons. Doesnt contribute to the depletion of the ozone layer. But, if your car lacks enough condenser and you have many 100+ degree days then you may want to stick either increase air flow, add another condenser as we mentioned in The Mr. Ice Project or stick with R12. It provided much needed context as I embark on re-building the AC in my sons new (to him) 1988 Toyota pickup. R134a Expansion valve different from R12? R134a was the replacement refrigerant for R12. If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. Weve been talking about air conditioning for a couple of weeks now, so if youre still feeling the heat then its time to wrap up the series so you can get out to your garage and put what youve learned to good use. The maximum value is 1. Since you cant vent any refrigerant without breaking the law, and since youll be hard-pressed to find a shop that will recover anything other than R134a, youll have painted yourself into a corner. Piston Slap: Booting a Torino in a snap without snaps? The problems that arise are related to the oils used in the system and the fact that they have different charge weights and different boiling points. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. In the last 10 years, new information has shown that this gas contributes to global warming. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. Temperature and pressure chart for refrigerants R22, R410A, R12, R134A, R401A, R409A, R502, R404A, R507A, R408A and R402A. And with R134a costing only two bucks a can, converting to the new inexpensive refrigerant seemed the thing to do. Additionally, R134a was introduced as a replacement for R22 and R12 in high and medium-temperature refrigeration systems like domestic and commercial chillers.