Youre also more likely to find a rifle in .30-30, especially in the used market. Other firms and individual designers submitted several carbine designs, but most prototypes were either unreliable or grossly off the target weight of five pounds. A failed product is often said to be ahead of its time, which is usually just a polite way of saying nobody wanted to buy it. from a 20" barrel. A typical 35 Remington factory load (200gr bullet at 2,080fps) has about 5% more energy than a normal 30-30 factory load (170gr bullet at 2,200fps). I have used the .35 Whelen on critters from bobcats to moose. As many hunters know, the Remington Model 600 carbine, which was introduced in 1964, was one of the first short, light, bolt-action rifles to find success with deer hunters.
Know those parts well. Duke's newest prize is a fine-condition Winchester Model 1907 .351 WSL. With this matchup, the winner depends on the specific loads being compared. Ballistics For the .30-30, however, the company offers multiple 150- and 170-grain loads as well as a 125-grain jacketed hollow point and a 170-grain Nosler partition that the company bills as ideal for elk. Just bought the 22 sl. spent to get the military issue version of the carbine will be money well spent. from a 20-inch barrel. All that being said, if one were interested in hunting with a very unique rifle that you would be very unlikely to encounter in the woods in the hands of another hunter, the Winchester Model 1907 and Model 1910 autoloaders in .351 Winchester or .401 Winchester would be a great choice. Gun #: 943226118 . This new model featured two new cartridges, the .350 Rem. When the 357 Magnum revolvers came out, hunters used it to take an assortment of big and dangerous game. Where carbine fire had proven killing effect, approximately 95 percent of the time the target was dropped at less than 50 yards. My pick by far is the 30 carbine for all the previous listed reasons. Mag.-all with a bigger, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger hole and penetrate deeper.
Winchester also produced a load firing a 250 grain bullet at 1,870 feet per second (1,942 ft-lbs of energy). M870 Remington 12 ga. pump with 'bucking shot' or #2s would suffice best! Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester. Hornadys LEVERevolution pushes the performance up a notch with a 200-grain pointed bullet at 2225 f.p.s. Winchester Rifles - Semi-Auto Pre-War for sale - Guns International Specifically, they had a significant problem developing a caliber powerful enough to be suitable for big game, yet usable in the 1903 type blowback autoloading action. crying, My kingdom for a rifle.. Neither cartridge produces stiff recoil. Our website lists special deals on 9mm Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 45-70 Ammo, 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, 300 Blackout Ammo, 10mm Ammo, 5.56 Ammo, Underwood Ammo, Buffalo Bore Ammo and more special deals on bulk ammo. In 1965 Remington took it to the next level with the introduction of the Model 600 Magnum Carbine. The work must have been done in the tool shed, but the rifle was a shooter. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. The M1 Carbine is VERY reliable, sufficiently accurate for most urban needs, and is feather light. M44/Carbine; Mini-14 Type; Model 77; RWS Rifles; S Misc Rifles; Saiga Rifles. was initially chambered in Remingtons Model 8 autoloader, soon followed by the Model 14 pump-action. Sadly, my favorite bullet diameter, the .35 caliber, doesnt even rate a blip on the American shooters radar screen. The 351 WSL fired a 180 gr SP at 1850 fps, this is much higher than the 357 Magnum fired out of a lever action rifle, a 180 gr SP at 1500 fps. Its safe to say that your local sporting goods store is more likely to stock the .30-30 Winchester than the .350 Legend. Even today it occupies a strange halfway point between pistol and rifle cartridges, being similar in design to a long pistol round or magnum revolver round with its straight-walled case and round-nosed bullet, but loaded with rifle powders designed for the 18 barrel of the handy little M1 Carbine. Furthermore, the muzzle energy of a .30 M1 Carbine round averages out to 960 ft-lb, while a .30-30 Winchester round averages out to about 1890 ft-lb. Everybody agrees that the .358 Win. It has never failed me. Nosler has three loads in its Custom line. were to go head to head with the .25-35 Win., .30-30 Win. The .351 WSL did grab a bit of fame, first as a popular rifle for prison guards and then as one of the rifles used to punch a lot of holes in Bonnie and Clydes automobile (although that accolade is in question). We don't use the same bullets for 30-30 Win and .308 Win and 7.62x39mm.
and .35 Rem., it was an excellent woods rifle for hunting whitetails. Check out GunBroker. the 32 was the hardest one to come up with, There are a lot of 351 out there and some very nice ones, Thanks for this article and the information in it. cartridgethe .351 Winchester Self-Loadingthat was substantially longer and more powerful than its .35-cal. Winchester 1907 I believe was made in 1908 semi automatic 351 caliber has a couple of clips with it. It arrived with three other cartridges designed to compete with Winchesters popular lever-action lineup. Mag. Thanks for your support. Its overall length was 35.6 inches; it weighed 5.2 pounds, had a barrel length of 18 . To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. Remington Green/Yellow: 1983 fps. But in 2003 Remington decided to attempt a resurrection. To put this into perspective, a Boeing 737 commercial airliner travels at a cruising speed of 600 mph, or 880 fps. [4] When compared to other medium bore rounds, the .351 SL is closer in power to the .35 Remington (200 grain .358 bullet at 1,950 to 2,000 fps from a 20-inch barrel) than it is to the .357 Magnum carbine (158 grain bullet at about 1,800 fps). The .30 Carbine cartridge was developed by Winchester and is basically a rimless .30 caliber (7.62mm) version of the much older .32 Winchester Self-Loading cartridge of 1906 introduced for the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. I have a 32 sl, 2 x 35 sl,351 and a 401. Neither Winchester cartridge was truly suitable for anything larger than small deer, and that might have been pushing it. Of course, not all .35-caliber cartridges approach greatness. Copyright 2000-2023 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved. I did read a article that said in the 1920s, the military tried experimented using a Remington model 1908 in 25 Remington and soldiers liked shooting it as compared to bolt action 30-06. The 94 Winchester would have been a good place for the .401 s.l. the Marlin 336 seems to have a beefier action though and is more easily scoped than the earlier Winchesters. It is very accurate, easy to carry and fast on the target. up to 0.358 inches and dubbed it the poor mans magnum.. Equipped with 10 round magazine to go along with a slightly beefed up forened and buttstock to resist cracking, many Model 1907 semi-auto rifles were acquired by many police departments to serve alongside the Thompson submachine gun in .45 ACP in an effort to give their officers more firepower. 1 - Existing barrel making equipment could be made use of. Two absolutely worthless cartridges, 30 cal M-1 carbine and the .351 have provided the insightful highway for some decent rounds. M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351. It puts down Whitetail deer and wild hogs quite nicely. The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Trigger Housing Group Bottom line? Would certainly make things easier, from a tooling standpoint. After reading about the Winchester self loaders, I decided to look online to get more information and see what I could find out, It seems like most writers complain about the Winchester self loaders action, but this was a new product. NICE BORE. 95% BARRELS, 85% RECEIVER AND N WINCHESTER 1400 20GA 28 MOD. Upon firing, the breechblock is delayed in its opening by its weight and spring pressure until the rising chamber pressure overcomes the inertia of the bolt. The .350 Legend goes for $1.15 to $2.30/round and the .30-30 Winchester anywhere from $1.15 to $4.70/round. I have one, and I like it a lot. The Model 1910 rifles were also prone to cracking of the forearm. The .351 Winchester fired the same 180 grain bullet as the .35 SL, but at a considerably higher velocity of 1,850 feet per second (1,368 ft-lbs of muzzle energy). According to a recent Federal Emergency Management Agency report, fewer people are "prepping" today compared to previous years. After two years of development, Winchester did beat Remington to market with the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. The .350 wins that power matchup, but this 170-grain .30-30 option offers 1,827 foot-pounds of energy at the muzzle while this heavier, 180-grain .350 Legend only produces 1,762 ft.-lbs. Please email us if you have questions about any of our product listings. I would also expect it to handle anything in North America from deer to the big bears. and a 250-grain Partition load with a muzzle velocity of 2550 f.p.s. The 32 Winchester Self-Loading Cartridge is the parent case for the 30 Carbine. Ruger made a few bolt-actions some years back, and Remington made rifles in the 700 Classic line, but they are long gone. Most have had an active life in the woods earning their keep, not being just stored away in the closet. A Poignant Historical Reminder, The Winchester Model 1907. 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Barnes has a Vor-TX load with a 180-grain TSX bullet and a muzzle velocity of 2900 f.p.s. the Henry's seem to be very solid and the action is danged smooth. First year gun, manufactured in 1939, Pre-WWII. By experience, they would come to handle it semiautomatically, but it took prolonged battle hardening to bring about this adjustment in the human equation. The .351 SL cartridge used an unusual bullet diameter of .351 instead of the .357 or .358 more commonly used in .35-caliber rifle cartridges. For hunting, it is considered a small-to-medium-game cartridge. I read Thompson made a experimental rifle in 351 WSL. would follow that tradition. SMOOTH PATINA METAL WITH GOOD WOOD AND A NICE BORE. When Winchester designed 350 Legend, we engineered all of the bullets from scratch to be optimized for the new cartridge. Considerations for Handloading World War II-Vintage Rifle Ammunition An M1 carbine design adapted to a rimless .357 Magnum round would be pretty neat but I can't see there being a big market for it today. They dont have that coveted NATO designation. Versatility refers to the range of animals that could be realistically harvested with a cartridge. Nathaniel is a history enthusiast and firearms hobbyist whose primary interest lies in military small arms technological developments beginning with the smokeless powder era. Both clock in around 9 foot-pounds of energy, about half as much as a .308 Winchester. Kahr makes the M1 Carbine but they are priced as high a original which i would hold out for if i was in the market for one . the m1 carbine owes a lot of its parentage to the 351. As of this writing, five of Midways .350 Legend options are in stock while the company reports having zero .30-30 cartridges available. A standard .30 Carbine ball bullet weighs 110 grains (7.1g); a complete loaded round weighs 195 grains (12.6g) and has a muzzle velocity of 1,990ft/s (610m/s), giving it 967ftlbf (1,311 joules) of energy when fired from the M1 carbine's 18-inch barrel. MADE IN 1911. I read back in the 1980s a couple of gunsmith were doing conversation of 30 Carbine rifles to 45 Win. As such, the following is for comparative information purposes only and should not be used to make precise predictions of the trajectory, performance, or true ballistics of any particular .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30 Winchester rounds for hunting, target shooting, plinking, or any other usage. The M1 carbine was issued to infantry officers; machine gun, artillery and tank crews; paratroopers; and other line-of-communications personnel in lieu of the larger, heavier M1 Garand. His was in pretty good shape. is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. You might already know this. I couldn't even begin to think of a reason to use such a bastard case/bullet size as the 351. The Big Game Hunting Blog is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.ca, Amazon.com.au, and other Amazon stores worldwide. Its not a long-range powerhouse by any means, but it can be loaded with more aerodynamic .30-caliber bullets that offer higher ballistic coefficients (BC). The .25 Rem., .30 Rem. The .30-30 in this example is traveling about 5% faster at the muzzle, but it drops about 20% less than the .350. The only energy foot/pounds that were calculated were for the Hornady Custom, which had the highest mean velocity. With six rounds on tap, it makes a good hog-hunting gun as long as heavy shoulder bone is avoided. The 10mm Auto semi auto pistols is being used to hunt deer and wild hogs, and it equals the 35 WSL ballistics. .30 Carbine Combo - Shooting Times Rifle Ballistics Summary - CHUCKHAWKS.COM ARMSCORs RIA 5.0 ST semi-automatic 9 mm Luger pistol represents the companys first handgun to be designed and manufactured here in the United States. The Remington Model 600 Magnum rifle, along with the cartridge it birthed, was just such a product. Upon its release, the Legend was marketed as a light-recoiling cartridge, and the .30-30 is also well-known as a good option for the recoil-sensitive. It was even used in Africa. Head to Head: 350 Legend vs. .35 Remington - An Official Journal Of The NRA They cant ride the love-it-or-hate-it controversy of the 6.5mm calibers. Commonly known asthe Model 07, the Model 1907 rifle was also popular for law enforcement use. The 1907 is designed with a short barrel, and completely . That is to say, .30 M1 Carbine bullets travel 2.3 times the speed of a 737 airplane at cruising speed, while .30-30 Winchester bullets travel 2.7 times that same speed. Jordan Sillars Feb 3, 2021. Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351, Re: Question for the experts: M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Probably well over half of the production for the last ten years went to police organizations in the United States. He can be reached via email at [emailprotected], being one of the very first* intermediate calibers. However, the .401 Winchester Self-Loading, which was itself proceeded by the .351 Winchester Self-Loading, and the Winchester Model 1907 and 1910 rifles that fired those cartridges, all filled those roles many decades before anyone ever heard of the 10mm Auto,the AR-15, or the Ruger Mini-14. "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber: Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass, Bullets and Powders" (2011) Speckin, Leonard pp 68-70, "Winchester Model 07 Self-Loading .351 Caliber: Its Past and Its Future with Modern Brass, Bullets and Powders" (2011) Speckin, Leonard pp 88-96, ".351 Winchester Self-Loading (.351 WSL, .351 SL)", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.351_Winchester_Self-Loading&oldid=1149960777, This page was last edited on 15 April 2023, at 14:17.
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